Little Paul - #
3 ball overheads (or infrontoffacess) either way I've decided that after 20+ years of juggling it's time I tried to learn this trick.
If you do this trick, which version do you do (overhead[1] or infrontofface[2]) and why did you pick that version rather than the other.
If you can do both versions, which would you suggest I learn first?
[1] overhead
https://youtu.be/vi8PCfOYAIg
[2] infrontofface
https://youtu.be/mbkwpou2Gpk
I learnt overheads about 15 years ago, primarily because the infrontofface version had not been popularised at that time. I *think* Gatto might have invented it, but it was Gatfield and the WJF that popularised it.
I can do the infrontofface version a little bit. It is slightly easier in that because the pattern is in front of you, you can see the all important crossing point. This obviously matters more for higher numbers than with three halls.
I still prefer overheads for their aesthetics, also if you want to juggle lying down, infrontoffaces don't help much.
If you don't want to play the numbers game, go for overheads!
Definitely overheads. They look much nicer.
Not sure I agree with Colin about infrontofface being easier for higher numbers. I think overhead feels a bit like a force bounce, & plenty of numbers jugglers are comfortable with that.
Dave Cheetham - - Parent #
That's interesting, I always thought that infrontoffaces looked nicer. Horses/courses, I guess.
I always felt like I had gimpy little t-rex arms every time I tries overheads, while infrontoffaces always felt more natural.
I learn overheads first because back then I hadn't really seen infrontoffaces (they were hardly really known about in the European juggling community [as far I could tell]). I had always been strongly against onfrontoffaces because they are not overheads.
HOWEVER
Because of the freer arm movement, they are easier for even numbers and high throws. I still appreciate overchests as a hard trick, but I don't like when people call them overheads.
Which one you learn is 100% preference.
Norbi
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
I've been practising overhead throws behind my head as I think they connect well with backdrops and shoulder throws. I've been trying to copy them from Dave Kelly. I've not tried a full cascade yet, mostly single throws and columns, eventually I would like to be able to run a box behind my head.
I think that "back in the day" most people thought that Gattos version was inferior to the "real" overheads.
These days i think of both versions being on a "spectrum" and that there is no single clear division between the tricks (you can always raise or lower something to make the boundary very blurry)
I think pumpkineater has it right saying to learn them for "purpose" - think about any other behind back / body variations you like or may one day like and try to get the body and objects in comfortable, versatile positions.
That was probably no help at all :-)
Little Paul - - Parent #
You're probably on to something there with your "spectrum" notion (given the difficulty I was having finding sample videos which clearly showed the distinction)
I think I'm probably going to have a decent stab at learning both versions.
I prefer the look of overheads, but they do seem to be harder in terms of judging a suitable dwell ratio - but they are more similar to juggling while lying down (which I like) and are possably more transferable to overheads with clubs than infrontoftheface is.
I must say though, it's quite an odd feeling to have some juggling enthusiasm back and to actually want to learn something new again!
Not sure how useful ball overheads are when learning club overheads. Throw technique is very different. Might be helpful in that you have less of the 'ohmygodit'sgoingtohitme' feel but still bloody dangerous.
Nigel
club overheads is the trick I will have learnt by Bristol (maybe)
Little Paul - - Parent #
I'm throwing ball overheads "elbows forward" which isn't that dissimilar from the position for club overheads as far as I can tell.
infrontoffaces are all "elbows out, dance like a chicken" which is a million miles away.
OK, now I've written that, I'm definitely learning overheads rather than infrontoffaces as my chicken dancing days are long behind me.
I'm also curious about your technique because my technique for balls & clubs is very similar.
I tend to have a wider stance for clubs & I definitely sprint away a lot quicker when it goes wrong with clubs more than balls.
ok with clubs I'm throwing them the same way I do tomahawks, elbows in front of me and about shoulder width apart. with balls my arms are at roughly 45 degrees from the line of my shoulders. Hands are in roughly the same place with each technique and immediately above my shoulders. the biggest difference though is I've been doing ball overheads for 20 years and don't have to concentrate at all and have no problems doing columns, 4, half shower etc. clubs I've been only working on this year and best is 7 throws (hit several times but not enough to be called consistent).
Nigel
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
This video popped up in my inbox today. Really nice use of 'in-front of face' overheads I thought.
https://youtu.be/NqHvcctNPqA-u-u
Coo! I wonder why I haven't seen him before?
The multi level 5 ball pattern at the end (3 at waist height, 2 in front of face) is a nice effect.
I've just remembered what I learnt when juggling lying down. Use stage balls, or some sort of solid ball. Most beanbags that I've used with drop dust, hairs, occasionally filling. It sucks when it lands in your eyes.
Vinyl thuds (that aren't falling apart) will work, as will juggling a really clean set of beanbags, or wearing (sun)glasses.
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